The former international discusses all the big stories heading into the Six Nations campaign, including Maro Itoje’s appointment as captain and England’s chances against Ireland.
Former England international Ben Kay believes Marcus Smith should start at No. 10 for their Six Nations opener against Ireland, and suggests that Maro Itoje’s selection as captain means Jamie George may not be a guaranteed starter for Steve Borthwick when fit.
England open their campaign against the Six Nations betting favourites at the Aviva Stadium in Dublin on Saturday, with Itoje leading the side for the first time since being named as captain.
In our exclusive interview, Kay also discusses how England can cause Ireland problems and some of his Six Nations highlights from his playing career.
Does the England captaincy carry too much pressure and become a burden?
I think it’s something that the media possibly plays up a bit, but I don’t think there’s a massive amount in it. It’s certainly an added distraction for players.
The amount of extra press conferences and workload is definitely there. But there’s pressure as well. There’s more pressure on it.
It seems more of a talking point than any other nation, like South Africa who rotate seamlessly. Why is it different for England?
There’s always an expectation for England to do well, regardless of what’s gone on previously. As the captain, you’re the figurehead for that.
My experience was definitely that the best sides had leadership throughout the team. Perhaps that’s an area that people have questioned about England in recent years is – some have asked if there is enough on-the-field field leadership?
I certainly think some of the younger guys coming through have leadership qualities, those like Ollie Chessum, the captain at Leicester Tigers. He seems to be very good in that regard. I think Maro Itoje is obviously quite a different personality.
What are your thoughts on Maro Itoje being England captain? What will he bring to the team over Jamie George?
I don’t think Jamie George is fit, so that would have happened anyway. But to me, it suggests he’s not convinced that Jamie is a nailed-on starter. He’s probably a nailed-on 50-minute player. I just wonder whether he rarely takes Maro off.
Having that consistency right through the game, that could have been a factor. I think Jamie George went in for a specific reason, and that was just to settle things with Owen Farrell not being there. He was a very, very popular person, a really good people-person.
But I guess that he might want someone on the field longer, or that he wants to guarantee that he’s going to pick them.
Is Itoje the right selection?
There’s been a long running debate about whether he should be England captain or not. People have been putting him in the frame for a long time. I think that the question is when things aren’t going right, how will he react? He’ll certainly be a very different captain.
For example, let’s consider Owen Farrell. He’s not a screamer and shouter, which might be a good thing. But the real test of a really good captain is when things are going wrong.
Have England made an error by announcing more than two years ahead of time that Steve Borthwick’s contract won’t be renewed? How will that affect morale in the camp?
You can read into that a number of ways, can’t you? You can read it that ‘they don’t want him anymore after two years’ or you could very much read into it that it’s his decision.
A little bit like when Eddie Jones took over. I could see Borthwick saying ‘right, this is my project. I’m going to commit to this, but after that, I fancy going off and doing something different’.
Will it affect morale? Absolutely not. The players will just see it as a World Cup cycle, and they’ll just go ‘right, we’re all in there, and whatever comes after that, we’ll deal with it then’.
Two years is a long time in rugby. Everything might change. The RFU might decide they really want him, he might decide that actually he’s been a bit premature. But I honestly don’t think it makes any difference.
One reason they might have done it is to take a bit of pressure off him. If England lose in Ireland and then lose to France, people will be saying sack him now. If there’s already an end date on the horizon, perhaps that takes a little bit of pressure off? It stops the questions.
‘Why haven’t you renewed Borthwick’s contract? Is he staying? Is he going?’
So I guess they’ve just got on the front foot and tried to stop the speculation.
Which English newcomer is set to break out at this Six Nations?
Well, obviously everyone’s got their eyes on Asher Opoku-Fordjour. He is very, very young, particularly for tighthead.
Fin Baxter launched with a massive wave of positivity into the England squad, and then he struggled a bit since. It’s very, very difficult for young props because they just haven’t got that experience of scrumming at the top level, and you can burst onto the scene in a certain way, and then people work you out a little bit.
That’s not to say that Baxter won’t come back and be an even better prop. That’s part of getting better as a player. I don’t want to put too much on Asher’s shoulders early on, but I’d love to see him get a run. There’s an opportunity for the three guys in the squad to make that position their own.
The hard part of being an England coach is keeping that consistency where you feel like a club side. You have those relationships with players and you understand them without chopping and changing too much. He’ll know specifically what he wants from each game. I think we might see a few more selection decisions rather than just putting the same side out.
Are there any players you were surprised that didn’t make the squad?
Again, it’s that balance, particularly in the Six Nations. Probably Ben Spencer can feel a little bit harshly done by.
Anyone else I can think of? I guess someone else that might have fancied his chances is Gabriel Ibitoye, especially as I am pretty sure England are going to try and not revolutionise their attack, but play more rugby than they have.
Despite a lengthening injury list, where can England hurt Ireland in Dublin? Which areas of the game can they gain the upper hand in if they are to win there?
The scrum is a massive area. That disruption for Ireland is there, it has become such a stable rock for them. When England win in Dublin, it’s always been about dominating aerially.
The problem is we’re saying it’s all about the selections, Freddie Steward needs a big game, obviously he does not have particularly happy memories of Dublin from two years ago where he was very unfairly sent off. He’ll want to make amends.
But I think that’s an area that certainly England would look to disrupt Ireland’s flow. I don’t think England’s first phase attacking launch plays are quite at the level that they want them at yet, which means the best attacking opportunities for England are off disrupted defensive lines.
England must be very mobile, very good at picking up the scraps on the floor and they can’t get the kick chase wrong.
Who does Steve Borthwick pick at 10 for England?
It’s really difficult, but I’d go with Marcus Smith.
But I would have absolutely no problem if Marcus was injured and Finn Smith was starting. I think if that was happening, Marcus would be panicking like you wouldn’t believe because he’ll know how good Finn Smith is.
Obviously, George Ford is an unbelievably experienced guy, but I think I would now, two years out from the World Cup, know how important this is. So he’d pick his best teams anyway, but I would be pretty much nailing my mast to one of the players that I think is going to be my starting 10.
I think he’ll go for Marcus now. It’s not to say that Fin Smith can’t get in there, but I think he needs a break to get that opportunity. I think the worry for Marcus is that Harlequins and he play slightly different rugby at club level than some of the guys do. I think their style of attack is slightly different. It’s just how he brings that in and introduces that to the players that aren’t as familiar with it.
What will be seen as a successful tournament for England? They took steps forward last year but steps back in the autumn.
I think you have got to say a minimum of four victories. That should be where they are at now, and that’s not being arrogant. It doesn’t mean you’re going to get it, but if you’re losing more than one game, it’s a really poor Six Nations for a team that has ambitions to be a top side. Ireland and France I would put down as the favourites for the competition.
I still think France have a deeper squad, so it depends whether these injuries come back to haunt them and how quickly they can get people back. I think you look at that French squad and actually their second team could probably compete well in the Six Nations. But England, we should never go in thinking ‘well, if we could win the games at home’ – that should just be a given, that’s where they need to get to to make Twickenham a fortress where no one comes to win.
France will be unbelievably difficult at home, but it’s at home and England should be expecting to win that. As I said, if they go away to Dublin and catch Ireland a little bit cold, suddenly people are starting to get above themselves.
What is the one thing you are looking forward to most about the Six Nations? Is it a competition which always shines such a positive light on rugby?
I absolutely love the Six Nations. For any England player, playing for your country is very, very special – but you don’t feel that you’ve done it properly until you’ve played in the Six Nations.
There’s so much history to it. I think it feels like the eyes of the UK, Ireland, and France are solely on you. There’s not much other sport in the calendar around then, which is why it has stayed in that slot.
The fact that you get one shot, it’s not home and away. You’ve got to go and do it the hard way at some point because you’ve got to win away from home. The fixtures can come out and they’re against you but the tournament is all about momentum. The other thing is that a team who have not been playing that well, if they get an early win and suddenly they’re in pole position.
It’s very, very difficult for other people to get their game up when they’ve had a bad couple of first games. I like the fact that the Grand Slam is so important. Everyone’s chasing a Grand Slam, and it almost feels like, well, we won the Championship, but it’s not unless someone wins all the games, which adds a completely different pressure angle.
The fact that in the final weekend, it might only be one team that can win the Grand Slam and someone’s trying to spoil the party for everyone else. I also think the different conditions add so much to it. You might have pouring rain in Scotland, you might have bright sunshine in Rome. You never know. Then the roof is shut in Wales!
I think it’s rugby at its purest, really. Every tournament’s very, very different. I always felt with the rugby Championship relationship, particularly that home and away thing, you could afford a bad game, you can’t afford one bad game in the Six Nations.
Which players can shine during the tournament?
Who might be the stars of the show? Obviously, if France do go on and win it, you’d expect Antoine Dupont to be the main man. But the pace that they have in that team is fantastic and Pierre-Louis Barassi is potentially going to be a global I think. He’s going to be one of the players gunning for World Player of the Year.
I think his pace is just unrivaled. France are just starting to work out how to use it best. I think as a breakthrough player, Noah Nene might be a guy that arrives.
Who do you think will win this year’s Six Nations?
I think because of the fixture list, Ireland could be the favourites. But I just have a sneaky feeling that France might do it the really hard way and go to Twickenham and win, go to Dublin and win. If I was putting money on it, I wouldn’t, but I’m going to go for France just for a bit of fun.
With it being 25 years of the Six Nations this year, do they have a standout moment over the years?
My favourite memory would be winning in Dublin to win our Grand Slam in 2003. England had been there, been in that position a couple of times and bombed it. Clive Woodwood made a pretty ballsy call, to be honest.
He said to us before the game ‘If you don’t win today, I guarantee you won’t win the World Cup’. For the World Cup coach to say that, I don’t know how he would have recovered if we’d lost! But the whole build up to that week was fantastic. Actually, the scoreline flattered us slightly. It was a really good game, a really tough, tough game, but we came out well on top. I think that was one of my favourite memories.
I guess the other one would have been the Old Lansdowne Road, my first game there for England. I’d played there for my old club side before I joined Leicester, a team called Waterloo against Dublin Wanderers. Dublin Wanderers in the old Lansdown Road used to have a pavilion at one end, and I took a couple of the lads in there straight after the game, still in our kit, having played my first game against Ireland!